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Cynthia Watson's avatar

I make NO apologies for Iran or any other ruthless, non-legitimate regime. they sacrificed their legitimacy decades ago for so many reasons. I also concur that Japan and Germany were anomalies as were perhaps the Philippines and a few others we can probably conjure up. My concern is that the atm is now empty but posts-regime change realities mean someone has to do some rebuilding. IF it’s in our interest to see the regime change, we will rue allowing Beijing to decide the future because we misunderstood, willingly or ahistorically or whatever, what would be required since we are choosing to do this.

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Jim Hudson's avatar

Absolutely agree - to a point. Looking back at history, it would seem reconstruction of Germany and Japan post WWII are in some ways anomalies; i.e., both countries were defeated and re-built with the help of Western powers. New leadership in both countries abandoned previous dictatorial leanings and "new" countries were born which conformed with what the West considered "normal." Banking on that success, we jumped into Vietnam confident of a win...and also of changing that country into a Western-based, thriving democracy friendly to everyone around them. We learned a long, hard and costly (blood and treasure) lesson on that one.

Desert Storm seemed to be a model of efficiency. We had a stated purpose going in. We executed that Op plan, succeeded in removing Sadaam from Kuwait...then we got the heck out of there. We didn't stick around and attempt regime change nor did we proactively try to rebuild what we broke. Many wanted to continue on and take out Iraq's dictator but we had accomplished what we set out to do. But then... we had to go back. There is too much to debate on that decision but one thing seems clear, once we achieved the first six of the eight stated objectives of that conflict...

1) end regime of Hussein

2) Eliminate Iraq's WMD (debatable)

3) Capture or drive out terrorists

4) Collect intel on terrorist networks

5) Collect intel on Iraq's WMD activity (again, debatable)

6) Secure Iraq's oil fields

..... we probably should have replicated our first win and just left. I think they would have figured it out.

Instead, we decided to continue w/ the last two objectives which seem to edge into nation-building:

7) Deliver humanitarian relief & end sanctions

8) Help Iraq achieve representative self-government & insure territorial integrity

There is another way to look at Powell's #14 rule. You could argue that Iran "broke it"...now they have to pay for it. I could see a case where if you looked up "State Sponsored Terrorism" in an encyclopedia, you'd see Iran prominently displayed. I keep hearing Israel and the U.S. saying the fight isn't with "the people of Iran..." but it probably feels much like it is to them when they're being pummeled from above. Iran has been the beating heart of terrorism directly and by proxy for a long time. If they had any intention of changing their views and/or approach, seems they would have done so by now. Their last uprising (revolution) cast aside Western-like views in favor of theocratic leadership and ended the historical monarchy. They made their decision and haven't attempted to change it from within since.

Not all attempts at nation-building or even quality of life enhancement is warranted or appreciated by the recipients. It reminds me of a story (not sure of the veracity but the point is made)... where a Western country entered into a remote tribal area in Africa and dug a well in the village so the villagers could have a ready supply of fresh water. Up to that point, the women of the tribe were responsible for gathering water daily and would trek over a mile to get it at a communal water source. Once the well was established, the village experienced turmoil. Why? Because the time invested by the tribal women to walk to the previous water source, fill their containers and walk back allowed them to talk about all kinds of issues regarding the village, their families, etc. out of earshot of males of the community. That opportunity went away when the well was put in. The story goes that they destroyed the well to bring harmony back to the village. Again, I don't know how true this is but it makes the point that sometimes, leaving existing situations alone is a better option until faced with overwhelming reasons to change them.

I guess that's where the current debate stands with Iran. If necessary for Israel and/or the U.S. to "break it"... so be it. But I'm not sure we should be in a hurry to "buy it" given past history with that country.

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